“A Christian is called to commit himself concretely to human and social realities without opposing “God” and “Caesar”; to oppose God and Caesar would be a fundamentalist attitude.” – Pope Francis at yesterday’s angelus address
Meanwhile, yesterday I wrote a post literally titled Caesar vs. God.
Of course, Pope Francis wasn’t speaking infallibly, so I’m not obliged to change my mind. But still, I really don’t like to disagree with the Pope, nor to be called a fundamentalist. And yet on the other hand, I really can’t help feeling that the interpretation I gave makes far more sense, given all we know.
Pope Francis doesn’t seem, in the quote, to mean Tiberius Caesar himself, but rather the world, which helps a little. And I don’t believe that Christianity is at war with all the world. But I do believe that worldly power (all the forces of control and destruction) and divine power (which is love and humility and service) are utterly incompatible. I believe the cross itself reveals this.
I’m not saying that Jesus came to overthrow any government. Whatever government is in power, however good or bad, is part of God’s plan, in which, ‘We know that all things work together for God, for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.’ [Rm 8:28].
I won’t even go so far as saying government is always bad. But I will say, that the power that is according to the world, the power that is power over, is contrary to God and to all goodness.
I don’t know if this makes me a fundamentalist…
What do you think? Am I missing something?
Thank you, and God bless
As A Little Child 
Hey Ignatius,
Good post and good question. This post made me think of Thomas Paine when he said, “Government is a necessary evil.” For me that about sums it up.
As far as going “against the Pope,” I understand you there. I at times battle that within myself. And as far as that matter goes, I just go back to the foundation of Church teachings and stay there, as I get too wrapped up in my own thoughts on it.
As far as the government Ignatius, we can never support any “evil” which comes out of the government. None! Zip! We cannot be true to it, nor committed to it. Something such as “abortion.” How am I going to be committed to a government which condones “abortion?” How are you? Yet as Thomas Paine said, “We still have to have it.”
But do we commit to things outside of God? Yes. Marriage, our children, taking care of elderly parents when they are ill, going to Church etc…. These things are not idols to us. We commit to these things because of God, yet they are not God.
I guess what I am trying to say here is, when it comes to the government we have to commit ourselves to the “reality” that it is necessary. Yet, we do not “commit” ourselves to the evil which can come forth from it. We all have to live in the society to which it creates. Good or evil.
Of course we all know God will turn it all towards His glory and for the glory of His children. To me, what our job is concerning the government, is to trust that God has it in His hands. That should be our firmest commitment.
Our Pope, Ignatius, is sometimes hard to follow on exactly what he says and exactly what he means. I am going to think about this a little harder and see if I see something different.
No, of all people Ignatius, you are not a “fundamentalist.” You and I both know that. God Bless, SR
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Thanks for replying!
I’m not sure I’d agree with him/you on that, because “necessary evil” has always struck me as a contradiction. If it’s necessary, it’s not evil, and if it’s evil, it’s the very opposite of necessary.
I agree completely that we can’t commit ourselves to any government that does such evil. But I’m not sure what this means in practice. I think to some extent, we have to refuse to participate. I won’t, for example, support any party that kills the innocent.
I’m getting pretty muddled again… I’ll have to try to get my head straight on this with more time.
Thank you. Looking up “fundamentalist”, I now feel pretty safe, although I wonder what he was saying in Italian, and how that context changes things.
Thanks again, and God bless!
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Maybe when it concerns the government Ignatius, you cannot have one (government) without the other (evil.) I think maybe that is what Thomas Paine meant. That is how I took it.
I am glad you found peace about being a “fundamentalist.” Trust me dear friend, that has never crossed my mind about YOU! :-)
Take care and have a great day! God Bless, SR
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If you use roads or schools or health services you should be paying taxes to the government that enables people to provide them. As symbolised in the UK by Elizabeth II Reg DG Fid Def on the coins issued by the Royal Mint. Money ‘that tainted thing’ is useful for settling transactions without physical barter – it is a medium of exchange, a vehicle of trust between people, when society is working properly, without rampant inflation. If money helps people to live ordered, co-operative lives it is a good thing. Even if the face on it is that of a tyrant like Tiberias.
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Oh yeah, absolutely. I’m not suggesting anyone shouldn’t pay their taxes.
I think the main point of saying, ‘Elizabeth II Reg DG Fid Def’ is actually to recall the old “divine right of kings”, particularly the DG for Dei Gratia. It is an interestingly similar inscription to Caesar’s, in attempting to give something of divine authority to an earthly power. That said, the divine right of kings actually also implies the ruler’s duties to God, and therefore the role of “servant king”…
Money is certainly useful, within our imperfect system of property, and should be used for the common good. But I think it’s something that belongs to “the world”, and so we should have no care for it.
Thanks for replying, and God bless!
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One thing I’ve noticed is that people who “oppose Ceasar” often become full of wrath and speak without thinking…Maybe he is talking about the social media which has become insane in its hate? With that said, I think he, Pope Francis, has made many step back and think deeper about what they’ve thought about at surface level before. Yet, it’s important to remember that he follows some of the spirituality of St. Francis of Assisi: hence his big focus on nature and global warming worries etc. But those aren’t, as you already said, him speaking infallibly. You wrote, “whatever Gov’t is in power is part of God’s plan..”.I think that I’d restate that -if I were writing- “whatever Gov’t is in power is allowed by God…” though He may not like it! ;)
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I think you may well be right there. It’s perhaps that attitude of abandoning the state/world, because of its sins and problems, that he’s taking issue with. I think his point wasn’t to endorse any government, but that we have to engage our societies.
I do think some things he has said about nature are authoritative though. Creation and recreation are crucial to the gospel.
Hmmm… I see what you mean. They aren’t simply obeying God (to believe this would be another kind of fundamentalism). But on the other hand, they are there with God’s permission, being secretly woven into His plans. Like how Jesus’ execution was part of God’s plan, despite being sin itself.
Thanks for the reply, and God bless!
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Yes, he makes GOOD come out of evil…He doesn’t condone the evil, but allows it for a greater good, an end that at times only he can know…
Tough Love?
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